26/09/2019 22:46. We walked all the way home. The doctor gave her consent, and I took the four little tablets. If one of the conditions is found or suspected, the sonographer may ask for a second opinion from another member of staff. I tried to keep positive. This does not mean there is anything to worry about. I had never imagined having an amniocentesis. The consultant had said it wouldn't be like a normal delivery. She didn't want to see the baby. Unfortunately I was not met with a compassionate sonographer. The doctor explained the options I had to manage my miscarriage. Public Health England (PHE) created this information on behalf of the NHS. Several women had taken young children with them to the 20-week scan because they expected to see 'nice pictures of the baby'. I felt I needed proof of what was wrong before I take such a huge decision and that I couldn't do it based on what someone had written on, on the paper. I don't know how we got through the next couple of days. She brought up a picture of the heart on the screen. So we went back the day after Boxing Day, the 27th, and the consultant greeted us, which made my alarm bells go, and she started scanning us and I think her lines were, 'What concerns me about this baby is that they've got a diaphragmatic hernia, which has meant that part of the stomach of the baby was in its chest cavity.'. The baby was very, very small. And I can, the words that the scanning member of staff used, "Everything's fine", will stay with me forever. Life expectancy of 30 or 40. Most scans are carried out by specially trained staff called sonographers. The next day, it was confirmed that my bloods had again dropped. I couldn't bear to see the baby and asked the midwife to take him away immediately. On the next shift, the new midwife asked us again. We use some essential cookies to make this website work. I hated my body and hated every feeling I was having. And that was a terrible moment to be sort of hanging on, waiting. You could see her face, and the major aspect that was, that was the indication of what was wrong was the thickening at the back of the neck in this instance, which, when you're looking at a fetus is, you know, sort of half a centimetre thicker or not is completely immaterial to me, and would look like a completely normal neck, but from the point of view of the consultant was severely abnormal. I've still had no cramps or bleeding so fingers crossed everything is ok I just couldn't believe I fell down the stairs, I can't remember the last time I ever did that! Hugely upset that to think that the baby was so poorly. Where we have identified any third party copyright information you will need to obtain permission from the copyright holders concerned. I took my vitamins, stuck to the healthy diet and put on a brave face. This scan takes place between 18 weeks and 20 weeks 6 days of pregnancy and is commonly called the 20-week scan. 'Yes, if that's okay with you,' kind of thing, like you do. Emma was 20 weeks' pregnant when a routine scan revealed that the baby she was expecting had Down's syndrome and heart problems. So it was just, we were coming up to the 20-week scan and I was just getting more relaxed, just actually starting to look at maybe baby catalogues or, you know, going down the baby aisle at the shops, which I'd always avoided. Wishing to be anywhere, but here being told the same agonising truth over and . All pregnant women should be given the booklet by their midwife or GP Screening tests for you and your baby by Public Health England, which gives detailed information about the types of scan offered and what they are looking for. ABDOMINAL CIRCUMFERENCE MEASUREMENT AT 20 WEEK SCAN. Last updated July 2017. SO much upset and needless angst has been caused by 'soft markers' found at scans. So she said, 'Come back on Monday. So he was about two weeks smaller than what he should have been. Never being able to look after himself. My wife had been very, very healthy, more healthy than the first pregnancy, and of course was shattered by the fact that the news, the news was appalling, very serious faces. However painful and traumatic the labour was, it was better than what would happen at the end of it. The clinic advised a follow up scan the week after, to check on progress and to see what to do next. Parents get a chance to emotionally adapt to news and plan. Despite this new discovery, the sonographer was still concerned. As I say, I'm not a very nice person at the moment. BabyCenter. I felt crushed, I wanted him to at least acknowledge what had been found already. For many other women, the 18-20 week scan was the point at which they discovered the baby had serious problems. And also what the prognosis would mean for our two year old: now a very happy child, he would have a completely different childhood with such an ill sibling. Baby loss support Maybe our son would have overcome his problems, survived his illnesses, led a happy life. And thank God I did. There was an extra digit on one of the hands. So even if anomolies are found, they don't always mean a problem.. x. I had issues at the 20 weeks scan with both of mine. I used to think the feeling of your baby kicking inside you and the sight of a foot poking against your skin were the most fantastic things in the world. And you could see, where you should have a picture of 4 chambers, you could really see 2. But on, in the middle of March, 10th March it was, we had a 20 week scan. I agreed to an internal scan as the sonographer said we could get a better picture of what was happening. But he was wrong. Actually you could tell from the brain development as he scanned up through the chambers of the brain, that one quarter of the brain, one chamber was not evident. See you in -. I wasn't unduly worried at all. I want to be nice again. So, in the end, we said we would arrange our own funeral. It was sick. How was that scan different from the dating scan? I was told they needed to do a blood test to get a bench mark of my hormone levels. Others, including those who had been given leaflets to read about the scan beforehand as well as some who were health professionals, said that they had been nave about the 20-week scan. Instead, we were shown to a room slightly away from the rest of the ward and the midwife stayed with us to talk through what was going to happen. Next most likely is that baby doesn't co-operate and they can't see some parts of anatomy and call you back 2 weeks later just because they couldn't see (i had this but because twin pregnancy I was due to be scanned 2 weeks later anyway). It is impossible to escape them and each one underlines your loss. 10/03/2021 16:13, @Cormoransjacket He was sure the consultant on Monday would see that the measurements were completely normal and that there was nothing to worry about. I give pregnant women dirty looks. And so this one can't tell you anything, it's pictures, you're going, you're going to see your baby, you're going to get pictures. The "why me?" Desperately trying to hold onto the glimmer of hope we'd been given. I remember thinking, 'Gosh' I now know it was a girl, I didn't know that then, that, 'She looks just like her brother'. A few people recalled how frightened and alarmed they became when they sensed that the atmosphere in the scanning room changed in an instant from 'jokey' to serious when the baby's problems were detected. And I said, I was still laughing, and I thought he was joking with me, and he said now I sort of could tell from his face that by that point he wasn't really joking anymore. I was experiencing some light bleeding for the past few days. We also use cookies set by other sites to help us deliver content from their services. I guess the morphine made it easier. This short video explains screening for 11 physical conditions in pregnancy. Health professionals use the 18-20 week scan to examine the baby's size and position, and also to check if his/her brain, heart, lungs and other internal organs are developing as expected. Possibly with hindsight we could have been more worried about it, but was probably a good thing we weren't, because we weren't worried about anything basically. So on the Monday we went in to see the senior sonographer, I think she was a consultant at the hospital. Picture every packed football staduim up and down the country - all healthy pregnancies and births. We spent the next few weeks in a happy bubble. Slightly marked from our peers. This was a ray of hope for us. . And even at that early stage it was beginning to sink in that there was something really not right. She describes having to make a . Later, I did see and hold our baby. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, "it didn't look good" and that "my womb looked raggedy". So we left it there, and we didn't actually think that there was anything really to worry about after that scan. So we went home really and I sort of had to think about it all night. I did. Let a mum know you're thinking of them send one of our personalised Mother's Day cards today, Home And having read, since read my information on Edwards' syndrome, a good 85 per cent have problems with the heart. Although the anomaly scan is often called a 20-week scan, you may have it any time between 18 and 22 weeks, although it's usually done between 18 and 20 weeks. Again, we weren't understood. Check benefits and financial support you can get, Find out about the Energy Bills Support Scheme, NHS fetal anomaly screening programme (FASP), Screening tests for you and your baby (STFYAYB), nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3, more information and details of support groups. We went in, had a scan, I can't remember the exact sequence of events because the baby was still in the wrong position. And the first few things they said it didn't sound as thing, as though things were terribly wrong. Yeah - in, stomach, out. We needed closure, to allow us to grieve properly. I was told this was common as my body and hormones still thought I was pregnant. The scan yet again confirmed things were not good, however the sac had grown. blood tests, CVS) were clear - and as one woman put it, 'after the triple test* (Down's syndrome screening) you stop thinking anything can go wrong'. I've been incredibly lucky to have such amazing support from Sam, my mum, and close friends and family. My partner went out with him, wanting to see him. I would be put to sleep, and when I woke up I wouldn't be pregnant any more. No one else felt him kick. At first, I still had to deal with the physical implications of having given birth. So obviously quite relaxed. It would have been nice to see someone straight away because I was in such shock. Went off for the 20-week scan, which you didn't, you weren't there, were you, for the first scan? It is extremely rare for these pregnancies to reach term as they typically spontaneously miscarry early in pregnancy. So we gave up and said we'd arrange the funeral ourselves. But it's bloody hard being miserable the whole time. My mum arrived early to look after our son, and my partner and I got a cab to the hospital. The midwife was on the verge of tears and I felt responsible. So we'd gone through the Down's syndrome or worse scare, we'd had conversations about what we would do, if it was confirmed that it was Down's syndrome or another syndrome, another sort of chromosome abnormality. But it was very evident. By this time, we were tired. . Having the scan does not hurt but the sonographer may need to apply slight pressure to get the best views of your baby. It seemed a very arbitrary system, and so you quite often sat outside in the waiting room for a couple of hours before you actually got to see the consultant, which was, seemed you know, I kind of remember thinking before we went in to see him on the particular day when we found out there was a problem, 'Why are we sitting here? As though I went power mad for a week, killing my innocent unborn child, and now I am tainted for ever. Our nightmare began when I went for my 20-week scan. But for those few days they were torture. This is not what I imagined pregnancy to feel like', Baby Loss Awareness Week - Voice Five - Bryony Seabrook. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here), tbh, they never give you good news at scans. I returned to be told they wanted to scan me again, another internal to see exactly what was happening. The thing about that which I felt was difficult is that we could tell when being scanned that there was something very seriously wrong. And, sometimes, I wish I had invited my whole family into the hospital room to see him. I had to wait for a doctor to explain the situation. Previous scans in this pregnancy and with my first child had been fun - a chance to see the baby wriggling around and perhaps find out its sex. But I was struggling mentally with the anguish, grief and endless hospital visits. She advised I be referred to the EPU to be assessed. It was probably all right but hadn't had any fluid in it at the moment. And so, yeah we got to, carried on with the pregnancy, kept seeing the consultant, kept sitting in the waiting room outside, because there was a terribly long waiting time sometimes, depending on what time you had the appointment. You've had, you've had your Down's Syndrome check and that's okay. Good luck has not come easily over the past few years. And I thought that if I were faced with the possibility of having an amnio, hours of discussion would follow - I would spend days mulling it over. We didn't feel we could tell anyone what was happening. Usually, sonographers will ask a senior sonographer colleague to confirm findings and this should be done immediately. How common is it for 2nd baby to come early..? Sometimes women were told that the sonographer had found a 'marker' or sign of a chromosomal condition and had to wait for an amniocentesis to confirm the findings. Could she possibly have something that's not been detected? What were babys measurements at 20 week scan? . I didn't want to go through anymore scans. The baby was kicking so hard that I began to believe him. So we decided to book an early 10 week private scan. We talked about the different sorts of pain relief I could have and I opted for a morphine drip, which I could control. But no. I think at that time she had come to terms better with the fact that this baby was going to be terminated, and I don't think I was quite there. Do you have any thoughts about that? I mean, you just, you're just overwhelmed, it's so much fun. For five months my body had known there was something wrong, yet I had felt fantastic. But it is a soft marker for Edwards' syndrome. But that was too easy. I hadn't thought about the mechanics of such a late termination, but had assumed it would mean some kind of operation. And the local hospital wanted to send us off to the regional hospital to actually confirm that, and were not really prepared to say at that time that there was something very seriously wrong. Dont include personal or financial information like your National Insurance number or credit card details. An appointment should be arranged as soon as possible and ideally within three working days. By my own hand, I had to end the pregnancy. Tissue paper will be tucked around your clothing to protect it from the ultrasound gel, which will then be put on your tummy. I was then told yet again bad news. I wanted to be a passive patient while the doctor did what he had to do. I wasn't ready to make a decision straight away, and I was told I could call them in the morning. He looked excited. While some parents understood the clinician's restraint - even when they had to wait an hour or more for a definite diagnosis - others disliked being kept in suspense and wanted to be told what the clinician was thinking. It felt as if we had gone power crazy. Sometimes specialist scans such as 3D scans, or MRI scans, are used to examine the baby in greater detail. I then found that soft markers means 'vague unproven suggestion of a link', and that echogenic locii are small concentrations of calcium which are incredibly common and harmless. Again the legs were quite twisted, they said that the baby's sternum was very short - things weren't in proportion you know - the head was quite large, the neck was very thick, there wasn't really like a neck as such it was just things were kind of - there were lots of things that obviously the consultant could see that we weren't aware of. And it's like, I really wanted to see it and I didn't, and it was it was very mixed. The anomaly scan, also called the 20 week scan or mid-pregnancy scan, is used to detect pregnancy irregularities significant in diagnosis of any of the following conditions: In most instances no serious issue will be found during the scan and many parents-to be will come away knowing that all is progressing nicely and, perhaps, having found out . I have horrible thoughts. And I know I can't hurry up the process of grieving. And my partner and I would have a completely different life from the one we'd imagined. Many people were deeply affected by their experiences of the 20-week and subsequent specialist scans. For once in my life, I had been organised. factor is very strong. Some things can be seen more clearly than others. At this point it wasn't looking great. Please note that the opinions expressed by users in Tommys Book of #misCOURAGE are solely those of the user, who is unlikely to have had medical training. 20 week scans look for 11 different anomalies as a rule, however, indicators (markers) are not terribly reliable and in all the literature I found, the targets set for stonographers look like they only pick up around 50% or less of these variants. It was over. At the time the same thing had, exactly the same thing had happened to my friend a month before, and her scan was absolutely fine. The 18-20 week antenatal scan and further tests, Ending the pregnancy for family & personal reasons, Deciding whether to see, hold and name the baby, Photographs and other mementoes of the baby, Saying goodbye to the baby - services & funerals, Coping with bereavement - women's experiences, Coping with bereavement - men's experiences, Men's ideas about their role in ending a pregnancy. They sort of drew some diagrams, and they said, 'But we need to refer you to a specialist to confirm the diagnosis'. Went back a week later for the scan and, you were with me for this one, weren't you? You can change your cookie settings at any time. I sat and waited to be called for my scan. I'd had the scan in the scanning room, I can't remember what they call it now, it's silly, it's gone from my head. Or, at the very least, heart problems. That was the first time I had heard him cry. The doctor told me he was 98% sure this was a failing twin pregnancy. I was disgusted - disgusted that such a tablet existed, let alone that I should have to take it. My partner watched the baby come out, and for a split second I saw a look of joy on his face. If necessary, you will be referred to a specialist, possibly in another hospital. Forcing my hand to my mouth to take the tablet was probably the hardest thing I have ever done. And she said that, you know, as the, if the baby did develop further there would probably be other problems with internal organs that weren't really that visible at that stage. On the third day, we got a phone call. As two youngest siblings, we were both permanently stuck in the irresponsible, childish role. Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. Spina bifida can usually be seen clearly on a scan and of those babies who have this condition, around 9 out of 10 (90%) will be detected. During the examination, sonographers need to keep the screen in a position that gives them a good view of your baby. And I remember, the first thing I remember when something might be wrong, was I saw, I finally, we finally saw an image of the skull on the screen, and there appeared to be a sort of black hole shape in the middle. So carried on with the plans, and, you know, planning for the, another baby to come along and then we went for a 20- week scan which is obviously the big one and very exciting, seeing all the arms and legs and once again everything was going fine, 'Look here's the baby, here's the length of baby'. But the closeness has remained after the drama has died down. And as, and as soon as I saw the pictures of the scan, having had two normal pregnancies, even I could see that there was a marked contrast between this pregnancy and the pictures that I'd had previously. I swallowed the tablet and we left the building. If you choose not to have the scan you can still have all other parts of your routine antenatal care. It was interesting - well it was fantastic to see this fetus and to see this child that was yours that was horribly ill - but you didn't really get much opportunity to see that because the consultant was more about measurements and all sorts of blood flow and various other screens coming up. So it was, there was very, very little movement from the baby because I remembered first time round by that stage, you know, that the baby was quite big and it moved around a lot at a later scan. Our baby was beautiful. Some people we talked to had not had a 18-20-week scan, either because their babies' abnormalities had been detected by earlier . Seated in the antenatal clinic with lots of expectant mothers with baby bumps. And I wish that I'd been told at that point, that somebody had actually turned round to me and said, 'Look, I'm sorry, but I think there's something very wrong. It's a bit at the back of the brain and - no I can't remember what it is - it's called, it's something that's called Dandy-Walker mal, The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) have produced a report on Termination of Pregnancy for Fetal Abnormality in England, Scotland and Wales (May 2010). But at the 20 week scan, which was on a Wednesday, we saw the nurse at the local hospital, the sonographer, and she did a scan and she found that the femur length was quite short in the, in the fetus. We had to discuss what we wanted to do with the little body after delivery. I was becoming numb to the whole process. The scan was inconclusive, but the size of my little bump was measuring a lot smaller than it should have for 10 weeks. Another sick joke. See more information about the 20-week ultrasound scan. You will then be asked to raise your top to your chest and lower your skirt or trousers to your hips. And that was scanning up from the above the head, then you were coming up through the child's head, so you were seeing the chambers in the brain, sort of it was evident in all four chambers of the brain, then suddenly one chamber was empty. Had 34wk scan last week and all is well - of all the babies found to have a two vessel cord, was told less than 6% experience any growth issues etc. And I, my husband and I both ran our own business at the time so we were desperate to get back and do some work, and things were going really well, so.. I had hope that the little bumps inside me were fighting just as much as I was to stay with me. The results come in stages. So at 20 weeks I went for my scan with my husband, with my daughter, to get our photographs. And they actually asked my husband to come in before they spoke to me. It went from bad, to worse, to worse, to dire, then to better. Eventually she got the measurements she wanted. I didn't have a clue. I ran into the bedroom to tell Sam, who was ecstatic. So and you could see the exomphalus, this little pouch, which was obviously just the intestines where they are. And I went for, I went for a normal 12-week scan, at my local hospital and everything, they said everything was fine, there was no problem. I remember thinking, 'that doesn't look quite right'. It's, I mean you can't tell from these scans what you're looking at really, but I remember thinking, 'it just doesn't look quite right' or something, but I didn't give it much thought. Thinking back, I don't know how we left without him. b>Bad news at 20 week scan. We must have had one before that as well, we must have had one before that, but it came back quite normal. Very occasionally this second scan cannot be completed, for example because: In this case you will not be offered another screening scan but you will offered an all over physical examination for your baby after birth. And shortly after that, that scan we'd finished and the consultant leant back and said, 'I'm afraid we have some problems here'. . And there [sighs] was a very dark patch over one, where the eye socket was, and they didn't know it, in the Edward's babies sometimes the eyes don't develop properly, or it might have been bleeding, they weren't very sure. However, at the time neither of us could articulate that. But the consultant had found more spots on the heart and the measurements were the same. I had an appointment with my consultant 2 days later, and again he said, you know, 'Very common - shouldn't worry about it too much, you know, if, the problem is if they find anything else wrong'. And that, that was when things where it started going a bit wrong. And at that point I don't think we, I don't think we realised that there might have to be a decision, because we'd talked about it with, with Down's and the other possible problems, but at this point it was, well okay what can be done to fix the problem - because yes the heart's not developing properly but there must be something we can do. He suggested he perform an amniocentesis immediately, to rule out any chromosomal problems. Then, three days later, I would go to the labour ward - the ward I had been expecting to visit in two and a half months. The screen may be directly facing them or at an angle. Sometimes it is difficult to get good views of a baby. The pain was excruciating, but nothing compared to how I felt inside. And I'd been on the internet looking up all sorts of things and everything was so negative, it was very depressing, because I thought, 'Well, maybe they've made a mistake, or maybe it's something they can fix, I don't know'. Cardiac surgery can do some amazing things. By the time I left the hospital, I was in shock. As I waited for the doctor back on the EPU unit. Everywhere you look, there are happy, fat, smug pregnant women. The scan looks for 11 different conditions in your baby and cannot find everything that might be wrong. I endured 12 hours of medication and in the early hours February 7, 56 days after my first scan (at nearly 18 weeks), I miscarried our babies. I think what everyone is saying is that most likely outcome is that there are no problems at all. The same unique expression he had when he saw our two year old born. This article was amended on 24 November 2015 to anonymise the writer. We're still not at the end of our journey, but we're much further along. My wife turned the screen away from her. A long process of blood tests, scans, doctors and hospitals. After she had taken all the measurements, the sonographer told us that she was concerned with the length of the baby's limbs in relation to the head. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here). This was on the Friday. It felt like a lifetime to reach our 12-week-scan. The first midwife seemed to understand what we were trying to say, and said she would ask the doctor to come and talk to us. So that just left the talipes. And, so they sent me home at that stage because they said the specialist wasn't available till the following day, which was awful. And they took me to another room and they explained that the baby had what they thought was ventriculomegaly or something. It's quite common, perhaps 1 in 10 they find these, and within a few weeks they disappear. The people who did know what was going on seemed far too sure that we were doing the right thing, that there was really no choice to be made. And I'm glad I did and she's glad she didn't. So I no longer trusted my instincts. Most scans show that babies seem to be developing as expected, and none of the 11 conditions are found. It was positive, and I felt elated. If this happens, you will be offered one further scan by 23 weeks of pregnancy. I have a terrible hatred of pregnant women and a new respect for infertile couples. Rather sharply, my partner tried to explain. I didn't really know what that was. As soon as we arrived, we were shown to this little room. I couldn't really believe what they were saying. This might be uncomfortable. The 18 -20 week fetal anomaly scan is a watershed in most pregnancies because for the majority of women it will be the last time they are scanned before giving birth. So that was it. Next most likely (but actually in the minority) they identify something which whilst not 100% healthy is treatable. Sometimes doctors will wait to give the baby more time to develop and carry out repeat scans - this had confused several parents we talked to who had gone for repeat scans not knowing that the baby might have a problem. the amniocentesis) and the pregnancy had already ended, or because the scan was not routinely offered in their region 5 or more years ago. Why me and not you, you bastard?